Is Halal food dividing us?
Like mushroom after rain, green Halal labels are rapidly finding their way onto the windows and packaging of food outlets and products worldwide. From multi-national food chains like McDonald’s and Campbell’s to traditional home-grown outfits like Old Chang Kee and Prima Deli. An increasing number of companies have realized that catering to the Muslim market is a proposition that makes plenty of economic sense. The Halal food and beverage market is estimated to be worth USD$580 billion worldwide this year.
Exclusively Halal eating premises such as Fork & Spoon and Banquet are also making major inroads and expanding their number of outlets. Major shopping malls today will come with at least one Halal eating establishment such as these.
Needless to say, the rapid expansion of Halal products and establishments has brought numerous benefits to the Muslim community. They come in the form of employment and business opportunities.
On top of that, Muslims can now dine confidently with their non-Muslim friends and acquaintances, knowing that non-Halal items and ingredients would not have cross-contaminated their food. Those who are particular about non-Halal food being at the same table will also have a better peace of mind. The ability to dine together is no doubt beneficial for social cohesion among the different religions and races here.
But not all are too happy with this development.
When an eating outlet is certified Halal, food that is prohibited by Islam are not allowed to be consumed on the same premises. This includes alcoholic beverages and meat that has not been slaughtered according to Islamic rites.
This prohibition has raised the ire of patrons who can no longer enjoy that cold mug of beer with their favorite dish at their usual eating outlets.
Furthermore, some see this as subtle colonization of Muslims who impose their lifestyle onto people of other races and religions. They question the need to appease Muslim palettes at the cost of giving up their traditionally favorite staples such as pork, wine and beer.
Why Halal?
A major misconception amongst non-Muslims is that as long as it does not contain pork, it is Halal. For food to be permissible under Islam it must not only but free from prohibited items such as pig-based products and intoxicants, but it must also meet a certain level of purity, hygiene and wholesomeness. This is why Muslims cannot eat carrion and animals that have not been properly slaughtered.
Interestingly, due to the strict requirements that Islam has with regards to hygiene and purity, some non-Muslims have expressed confidence in the Halal certification as a mark of quality. Efforts are underway by regulatory bodies like the World Halal Forum to formalize this process and present the Halal sign as an international hallmark of wholesome food.
With progresses such as this, it is clear to see that Halal food will soon be enjoyed by each and all worldwide. It continues to serve as a platform that will allow people of different religions to sit together over a meal where they previously could not.
Halal Food as a Common Denominator
Muslims are often reluctant to sit at the same table or eat at premises where non-Halal food like pork and alcohol is served. This often arises due to concerns over odor and cross-contamination of utensils.
However non-Muslims are not prohibited by their religion to eat Halal food.
What prevents us from using Halal food as the common denominator so that all faiths alike can sit at the same table and enjoy a meal together? Could not this growing trend of Halal eating premises be adopted to unite our races like we have never done before? All it takes is the shedding of some non-Halal items from the menu and lunch takes on a whole new social meaning.
What better way than to start it off from our school-going youngsters? When I was in school, we had a designated eating table for Muslim students. We never had the chance to mingle with our non-Muslim friends over canteen breaks. The Muslims had their “spot”, while the non-Muslims had theirs.
The Halal canteen at the primary school mentioned earlier could be a thawing sign of this unsightly social demarcation.
Sadly many do not see it this way. Sadder still are the existence of those who come up with frivolous initiatives like a Halal food boycott. Instead of uniting, Halal food is needlessly dividing.
It is very unfortunate indeed that this particular primary school has been ordered to abolish its policy of having a Halal canteen. Its principal has been reprimanded and made to apologize publicly over the fiasco.
A student there can now bring in pork and other non-Halal items into the canteen. It remains unclear if his Muslim friends, who could previously join him at the same table over a lunch, will still do so once this happens.
Posts
Burger King now servers Turkey bacon instead of real bacon...
ReplyDeleteSome religions preach against consuming beef, yet do we see beef being replaced on our menus?
I for one do not appreciate having my diet dictated by another person's religious beliefs.
But beef is a seasonal prohibition. Hindus do not eat beef but on some days they can. All my hindu friends eat beef.
ReplyDeleteUnlike pork which is not supposed to be consumed at all times.
I think you are wrong, not eating beef isn't seasonal.
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteI think its immaterial to argue about eating beef and whether it is seasonal or not.
I'm a non-muslim and i know that my religion does not allow me to eat beef.
But it is not that strict. We can still eat at the same food courts as people who eat beef.
However, the Muslims cant as they are much stricter with rgds to this laws. That is why i agree with the author. I don;t see the harm of doing away with certain items that are not halal. Which is more important to u? Friendship or your plate of charsiew?
Friendship or charsiew? That is such a simplistic view of the issue.
ReplyDeleteTo begin with, that's "friendship with conditions". The condition being, I can't eat pork, so you aren't allowed to as well.
I'm all for religious freedom, but freedom cuts both ways. Just as you are allowed to practice what you believe in, I should be allowed to live as I deem fit too, as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights.
The simple example of Burger King's Turkey bacon is a great example of infringing on someone's rights.
I don't believe any one religious group or another should have that right to impose their religious restrictions on everyone else like that.
Some people are vegetarian. Does that mean all meat products should be replaced with vegi substitues?
I believe Muslims are also allowed to eat in the same food court as people who eat pork.
ReplyDeleteHow is that different from not eating beef in a foodcourt that serves beef?
Let me be clear now, I am 100% against boycotting Halal foodcourts. I'm not even against Islam in any way or form.
I just do not see why if other religious groups can be, and has to be, tolerant and not impose their beef/all meat products/etc restrictions on everyone else, the Muslim religion is allowed to impose their restrictions on the rest of us like this.
Simplistic view of the issue?
ReplyDeleteWell life is simple. But sometimes we think too much and make it complicated.
It all boils down to the same question. Would u be willing to give up pork for that one meal, so you can lunch with your Muslim colleague?
Muslims generally do not sit at the same table where there is pork served.
That is why we have seperate tables in the army remember?
Burger King has replaced bacon with Turkey bacon to tap the Muslim market. The Muslims did not ask for it. It's a commercial decision.
I'm happy for my muslim friends who can now eat burgers at BK with me. previously they can't.
It's not like I cannot eat bacon anymore. I can eat it anytime of the day. But I value time with my Muslims friends more, so much that I'm willing to give up pork for that just one meal.
That is why I support the idea of halal food courts. For that one meal I can now sit with them. It's not like I cannot eat non-halal food ever again.
Come on Singaporeans. Live and let's live.
ReplyDeleteWe can have a 'halal' eating place provided there's a 'non-halal' next to it eg VivoCity.
The principal being a public servant has erred. Surely the taxpayers would like their kids to enjoy their char siew pow during recess, right?
In fact all animals are created and protected (during the great flood inside the Ark) by God. So why consume them in the first place.
So please spare poor cows, pigs, goats, chickens, etc.
Let's all be vegetarians. In case you don't know, poor Muslims avail themselves to the free vegetarian food served daily at the Chinese temples.
Por non-muslims help themselves to free halal food and porridge at the Darul aman Mosque too, amongst other mosques.
ReplyDeleteSo what is the issue with halal food?
So you're a vegan. What is your shoe and wallet made of?
Jai, it's amazing how you just either completely miss the point, or are just too obstinate to admit you are wrong.
ReplyDeleteYou conveniently avoid the points raised that you can't answer and stick to your one point that has been shot down so many times.
"Would you be WILLING to give up pork for one meal...". Is it really your will when that choice is taken from you?
"Muslims generally do not sit at the same table where there is pork served." - GENERALLY. So they can, they choose not to.
Do you know some vegans actually get nauseated by the thought of eating meat, let alone seeing someone else eat it?
Answer then, would you be WILLING to give up all meat cause there are vegans around? Is it still considered WILLING if all meat were to be removed from our menus?
I had a pork burger while holidaying in Bangkok.
ReplyDeleteThe taste of freedom was priceless.
Taken from a MUIS sermon.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, Allah has forbidden us from eating pork. Why? Because the pig is an animal that is disgusting and dirty. Pork is the root cause of numerous illnesses. The JE virus that had spread in our neighbouring countries started from two bacteria that had been mixed in the body of a pig. These bacteria had then become a germ that is dangerous to the human body. The bird flu virus in Hongkong also originated from the pig. Allah has warned us about the pig. And Allah has warned us about eating the meat of a pig. Clearly Allah forbids us from eating pork because He loves us. He made it haram for us because He knows it is bad for us.
What's the point of posting your Muis speach here? We could also put stuff from the Bible, from the Analects, from the Bhagavad Gita, Talmud, Tao-te-Ching, Upanishads, etc...
ReplyDeleteThat's your belief, that's up to you. No one is contesting that.
However, posting that here just shows how insensitive you are to other people's beliefs and rights.
This is the exact kind of mindset and thinking that leads to imposing your religious restrictions on everyone else.
lifeinside cites Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy listed not only Porky Pig but an endless list of eat-nots.
ReplyDeletePork eaters are primarily found in the Far East namely, China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, etc. The Europeans and Americans love their ham and bacon as well.
These countries generally have a much higher standard of living than non-pork eating countries. Their life expectancy is also much higher. The state of their health is also better than countries (usually 3rd world countries except for the few oil shiekdoms) who abstain from pork.
Go check out the facts from the net or travel out there for first-hand info.
Btw, animal species can contract and spread the the same disease among themselves; not just swine fever. We have bovine disease (mad cow disease), avian flu (bird flu) and even fish (check out - http://www.fish-disease.net/diseases.htm) And all these viruses if transmitted to man via consumption of the infected meat may be fatal.
Yes, those days we tend to accept blindly whatever is written in holy books. "This bad, that's no good." "It's harmful to the body."
ReplyDeleteNot anymore. People now are better educated and are not easily hookwinked. They can read. They travel. They observe. They surf the net.
Most importantly, they compare. And the majority choose to make a considered decision whether to eat or not whatever based on the observable truth.
If the consumption of say, pork is bad, then today we won't see the rise of a magnificent pork-eating China (since they opted for a free market economy in the 70s) and growing from strength to strength by the day (let alone Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc.). Only sick people can't grow the economy, right? They are lethargic.
The arrogant human, who thinks that he is smart and knows it all has been in an existence since the time of revealed scriptures.
ReplyDeleteIt's nothing new.
The dangers of eating pork has been documented since scientific studies started in the 1800's.
I list them here, for the uninitiated. And no, these are not Muslims who are writing these.
http://www.giveshare.org/Health/porkeatdanger.html
http://www.moseshand.com/studies/eatingpork.htm
http://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/Pork-Awareness-t8108.html
It is no secret that the Chinese in Singapore suffer from diseases that Muslims have a starkly lower rate off. Do not need to elaborate more. You can google it yourself.
Why Islam fobids pigs and dogs need to bee seen in the context of that day.
ReplyDeleteHistorians have pointed to the fact that in those ages, cases of tapeworms were very widespread. That could be the reason why God forbids pork, to save the people of that time, like he saved the people from other times from other diseases.
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/cobf/vpost?id=720196
People like J. H. Kellogg who wrote such articles were staunch bible- Christians. They were spiritually biased. Imagine the article being written in 1897. My friend, this is Year 2008! We are talking about nano technology. What enzymes, lab equipment, etc. He wrote the piece more than one century ago? The testing for food consumption today and then is beyond words.
ReplyDeleteThe days of camel riding is gone. Today we use GPS guided tomohawks.
"It is no secret that the Chinese in Singapore suffer from diseases that Muslims have a starkly lower rate off. Do not need to elaborate more. You can google it yourself."
No secret??? You make such statements without facts and basis. It's dangerous. Perhaps, get your facts right from MOH. Why should the MOH or for that matter the world allows its citizens to be poisoned by eating pork?????
Look at the outside of cigarette boxes.
In any case, the measure of longevity and health & hygiene , etc., are standard indicators available in every country and also from the United Nations (for comparisons amongst countries). From there we have the developed (rich) and developing (poor) countries. The majority of Islamic countries record (save the few oil shiekdoms) have much lower statistics. In fact, one doesn't have to look far, if you understand what I mean.
We all have to come out of the caves one day.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a child I enjoyed watching Arnold. He was a pig on
TV. An acting pig. He could do a lot of wonderful tricks and things no other animals (perhaps except for doggie)can do. He was part of man-animal comedy team that got the audience laughing weekly.
Then in the nineties came 'Babe'. It was intelligent pig beyond imagination for animals. That's why he was the star of the movie and a couple more followed. Not the animated Porky Pig! Check this snippet out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvvwduvbs-o&feature=related
Have you heard of xenotransplantation. For a start check out: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/424956.stm
A few more years down the road the aged and sick can literally replace their worn-out body organs - all thanks to the pig (closest genetic make to man). This is no joke.
In Israel, the guardpig is being piloted in place of the guard dog. Because the pig is just as smart!
What a fine creature that the good Lord has created for mankind - for food and others.
We don't want to miss all these, do you?
Can muslims eat mushrooms? Since they grow on fecal and rotting matter.
ReplyDeleteI'm a Chinese, and one of my best friends is a Muslim. Within our group of friends, we would often automatically choose a halal restaurant for our meals, and it was never an issue for us. It was an unspoken agreement, for within the same group of friends, we have people who don't take beef, don't take pork (me), don't take chocolate etc... we just accept our differences when it comes down to our meals.
ReplyDeleteMy friend is a devout Muslim and we've had meals in non-halal places, hawker centers and food courts, but there was never a problem despite our different in choices of food.
At the end of the day, it boils down to understanding and tolerance.
I feel like having pork chops with all of this talk about food.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed reading your post because it is also an issue that I have been thinking about quite seriously.
ReplyDeleteHowever, your argument is flawed. If your proposal of making all food halal has the capacity to unite everyone, then, the opposite is also true. Abolishing all halal food also has the capacity to unite everyone.
Before you mis-understand me, let me say that I am not for abolishing halal food - I'm merely pointing out to you why your argument fails.
Going by the numbers game, Muslims are in the minority and logically speaking, one would expect the minority to assimilate into the practices of the majority, not the other way round.
Just by this point alone, your solution to the divide-unite dilemma simply won't work.
I would go for respect and tolerance. Non-Muslim friends should accommodate their Muslim friends by dinning with them in Halal places but it should not be a one way thing. Muslims should also return the goodwill by joining their non-Muslim friends at non-halal places. Give and take.
I'm a Muslim. I don't eat pork nor any other non-halal products.
ReplyDeleteI dine with my all-non muslim friends daily, or for almost all my meals throughout the year. I have no issues having my halal food. We dine in a non-halal foodcourt. Not a problem for me.
I grab a sandwich, desert or toast if we happen to dine in an outlet that serves no halal food, just because they wanna have the best Bah Kut Teh in town. I wun kick a fuss.
On many occassions, they insist that we eat at a halal foodplace. I don't require them to do so. I appreciate their thoughts. This is what I call friends.
My Hindu friend has chicken burger at BK. I have fish burger at MOS burger, a non-halal place. We ensure no beef, no pork and vegetarian pasta/ rice served during our many BBQs.
We went on overseas trips and they have their porks. I stick to my diet. I dun impose my diet upon them.
This is the beauty of living with friends from other religions for almost all my life.
I'm learning Chinese. They learning Malay. Food's never an issue. We've been to each others houses and eat at each others places.
Muslim can stick to their diet without imposing it unto others. Never be seen as the demanding one. Always be seen as the accomodating one.
Non-muslim just need to understand and respect.
Foodcourts going halal is mainly a business strategy. Muslims don't write petitions requring BK to go halal. Mcdonalds in India don't serve beef. Hindu forms a majority there. McD wants their money. Muslims do have spending power here, even though not the majority. BK, Swensens, Banquet, they all wants a share from the Muslims spendings.
Do visit Carl's Junior or Subway now if you need your bacon. However, if they decide to go halal, dun blame it on Muslims. It's part of their profiteering strategy. Muslims don't write letters threatening them to go halal.
The Muslims in Beijing never die of hunger, Chinese in Dubai still living happily without their daily staple of pork. And have you ever spare a thought for the small Jewish population in Singapore and their Kosher requirements?
"What prevents us from using Halal food as the common denominator so that all faiths alike can sit at the same table and enjoy a meal together?... All it takes is the shedding of some non-Halal items from the menu and lunch takes on a whole new social meaning."
ReplyDeleteI'd just like to humbly quote your old article (dated 18 January 2008) on vegetarians here.
"Frankly, I am sick of these vegetarians imposing their beliefs upon others... I used to have a friend who refused to attend any of our barbeque gatherings even though we have promised him vegetarian meals. His excuse was that he does not want to come anywhere near the “grill of death”. Not a week goes by without him preaching about the virtues of being a vegetarian."
It's sad that people just surrender their minds to their religion, and believe blindly everything that is dictated by the religion.
ReplyDeleteSuch irony then to see that you don't like it when vegetarians impose their dietary restrictions on you.
ReplyDeletehttp://muhammad-ridzwan.blogspot.com/2007/01/meat-eaters-are-merciful.html
"Frankly, I am sick of these vegetarians imposing their beliefs upon others. It used to be that vegetarians were very mild, nice folks typical of a meek herbivore. But lately they seem to have grown very aggressive. I used to have a friend who refused to attend any of our barbeque gatherings even though we have promised him vegetarian meals. His excuse was that he does not want to come anywhere near the “grill of death”. Not a week goes by without him preaching about the virtues of being a vegetarian. And no, he does not do it for religious reasons. "
Business go for the Halal label because they can get more profit. Simple as that.
ReplyDeleteAs for the commoner (meaning you an I), can we imagine a hypothetical scenario where another religion somehow says "we cannot eat meat and so when we consume our food, the place/shop where our food is served cannot have any traces of meat". So does that means everyone have to become a veggan?
Understanding and tolerance have to come both ways.
Came across this post by chance.
ReplyDeleteHope you will not become too extreme in your views as you grow.
Tolerance and understanding takes time and it comes both way. It not the mine is greater, you follow or vice versa.
Learn to have an open mind and respect the other as you would want the other to respect you.
I love my pork. Couldn't do without it. But i'm more than happy to look for a place that is halal or that serves stuff without pork if i'm dining with a Muslim friend.
ReplyDeleteBut please don't use science to justify your religious belief. Lifeinside's comment is particularly funny. I wonder where he got all that info from... Most of what you eat is either digested and absorbed, or gotten rid of. Pig tissue can't possibly replace human tissue. And getting a parasite infection is exceedingly rare in singapore. Well cooked pork cannot transmit diseases. And pig insulin has been phased out for years! All the insulin we use now is engineered human insulin. Lots of other animals carry disease but we still eat them don't we?
Perhaps the only benefit from not eating pork is the lower intake of animal fat which causes high cholesterol and obesity. But then Malay food is kinda liberal on the coconut milk, so no diff there... While it's true the Malay population has lower statistics of certain diseases, that's more due to ethnic variation than simply due to not eating pork.
Please don't abuse science in the name of religion! =)
People! people!
ReplyDeleteLet's not get too carried away here and bash each other/ the writer. Let's have mercy for each other.
I think we all admit that halal food industry is a rising force to be reckoned with. Unlike vegetarianism, beef avoidace etc which are just splinter groups.
I think the writer is worried with the rise of Halal, events such as the halal food boycott will split the society.
I think that is the main message here. Let's not shoot the messenger.
I for one share the writer's views although I'm non-muslim. btw pls stop the pork argument. it just divides us further.
And what of kosher food?
ReplyDeleteWill not eating kosher food divide you from your Jewish friends?
Superficial and nonsensical!
ReplyDeleteWhy no one quote the Toaist Deity 'Ci Kong'. He was porteayed as saying 'Let the wine and dog meat pass through my stomach, for the Buddha is in my heart'. Ci Kong meant that a pure(clean/kind) heart matters more than all the superficial acts of man(kind).
Some talked so much of hygiene and cleaniness in food preparations. Ask yourselves, are You less sickly than others. Do You live longer, healthier and stronger than others. Obviously the answer is no, more than ten colleagues of mine had died before fifty year old and for your information, 80% of them were non-smokers. Amongst them, about 60% were Malay.
Try to unite others not by dictating, seperating yourselves from others. But by removing the idiosyncracies of oneself and integrating oneself to others. Nature is such that You do not find a forest of only a single species of plants. Open your eyes and OPEN YOUR MIND, You will live more peacefully and live longer.
It saddens me to see Catholics and Protestants killing each other and so are the Middlee Easterners(Shiites, Turks, Sunnis and others). Not to mention the Religious feuds in India, Sri Lanka and almost everywhere. How silly must man be?
By common man
the post started becos the writers is worried that some ppl are organising a halal food boycott.
ReplyDeleteyet, the writer and muslms are being slammed for isolating themselves?
let's not compare, kosher and vegans. they are too small compared to the might of the halal food industry, who has a real chance of seperating ppl
Its 3 things that are being entwined here.
ReplyDelete1. More Halal foodcourts popping up.
2. The principle who tried to turn his canteen Halal.
3. People posting their arguments why pork should not be eaten.
For item 1. I don't give a crap. Those are private businesses and they have every right to ply to whichever market openning they see.
For item 2. He had good intentions, but did ultimately try to impose one person's restrictions on everyone else. This to me is wrong. It triggered an unfavorable response that fell over to private businesses (call to boycott Halal foodcourts - of which I'm against btw).
For item 3. Each person's personal belief is their right. No one should try to impose that on anyone else. For every one supporting arguement one way, there is always another supporting the other. So what's the point in argueing on a website?
I have to say that even if the number of vegans and people who do not eat beef may be less than the number people who do not eat pork(questionable), that doesn't mean they have less rights.
So, if the arguement is simply, "No one is allowed to eat pork then we can all eat together", then the counter arguement, "No one should then be allowed to eat any meat so we can all really eat together" holds.
However, Halal means more than just not eating pork. So if the principle had said, the canteen should be certified Halal EXCEPT for one or two stalls that are allowed to serve pork products (don't know if that's even possible) so that Muslims in that school have more choices, but non-Muslims too have their option to eat pork if they want... That may have worked out a little better.
*disclaimer - this is all just my opinion and you as free to disagree*
I disagree.
ReplyDeleteWhy does eating halal food entails being imposed upon? It's still the same chicken and meat. The only thing missing is pork.
I think the writer's argument is simple:
Halal food could be the platform for all religions to dine together.
I tend to agree with this statement because unlike vegetarianism, halal does not make drastic changes to the diet. All the meat, fish, cockle, crustacean, vege, fungus, are still there - except just prok of course. and jews can eat halal too.
Jai. You "think" or you "know"? That is the problem, your arguements are based on too many assumptions.
ReplyDeleteYou overlooked the fact that people have the right to eat pork, or any food they want, like it's of no consequence.
Taking away someone's rights is a HUGE thing.
Also, for your information, just because a stall is certified Halal, doesn't make it Kosher. So just like the rest of your arguement, please do not make assumptions and write it like it is fact etched in stone.
"Muslims are often reluctant to sit at the same table or eat at premises where non-Halal food like pork and alcohol is served. This often arises due to concerns over odor and cross-contamination of utensils."
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure where this comes from. I have many muslim friends who sit at the same table when we non-muslim are eating food that are non-Halal. (Including pork) None of them have any problems with that.
Come on, Muslim teaching says that Muslim must eat food that are Halal. They didn't say anything about cannot share table with people eating non-halal food. Cross contamination? You got to be kidding.
You are the one who is creating the social barrier.
The last I heard Singapore was not a Malay state. Just because Muslims cannot eat pork or animals that aren't slaughtered the Muslim way doesn't mean the rest of us can't either.
ReplyDeleteJai said "because unlike vegetarianism, halal does not make drastic changes to the diet"
ReplyDeleteThat is YOUR definition of drastic. A vegetarian could think that changing to a vegetarian diet "does not make drastic changes to the diet" either. Who are we to decide for him?
So then, who is the vegetarian to decide for you?
no no no, vegetarian food is the most common denominator. going by your reasoning, and the fact that there is twice as many buddhists here in singapore, why not vegan food?
ReplyDelete"What prevents us from using vegan food as the common denominator so that all faiths alike can sit at the same table and enjoy a meal together?... All it takes is the shedding of some non-vegan items from the menu and lunch takes on a whole new social meaning."
does this mean i cant have my whopper anymore?
I have no problems eating on the same table with my muslim colleagues or friends. We eat what we want. As long as we respect each other's beliefs, I think we are alright, be it Christians, Buddhists, Islam, Hinduism,or vegans blah blah...I mean, our lives are already quite busy and sometimes quite sad(earning money etc etc...)and if we care so much, wouldn't it make our lives very miserable ??? sigh.
ReplyDeleteA student there can now bring in beef and other non-vegan items into the canteen. It remains unclear if his non-buddhist/hindu friends, who could previously join him at the same table over a lunch, will still do so once this happens.
ReplyDeletepls dont take my whopper away.
and please impose your sharia somewhere else, perhaps up north?
I'm a Muslim Singaporean.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading all the comments by the non-muslim singaporeans here, i am heartened to know that my chinese friends would rather give me up that to give up their pork.
thank you fellow singaporeans for letting me know. happy eating your pork. u dun need to sit with me. goodbye
Come on, please be sensible.
ReplyDeleteDoes Halal foods make one think pure or becomes pure??
Does it mean that those who consume only Halal Foods will not indulge in illicit sex, take no drugs, do no wrong and become saints?
The World is filled with hypocrites.
I am lucky that my Malay Colleagues help me to buy Chinese, Malay, Indian and other foods. And I frequently have meals with colleagues of different races and religions. So, if You can't sit at the same table with people eating non-halal foods, please check your thinking.
Non thinker
Halim, I'm heartened to know that you choose not to sit with your Chinese friends then blame them.
ReplyDeleteThank you my Muslim Singaporeans who want to set conditions for your friendship, then cry about it when your conditions aren't met.
Ya. I am heartened to know that Halim would rather give me up because of pork.
ReplyDeleteThank you Halim for letting me know. Happy isolation. You don't need to sit with me. Goodbye.
Halim: Don't worry, you still can sit with vegetarians. But wait, will you give up your meats to sit with him?
ReplyDeleteThe issue is this.
ReplyDeleteMy Buddhist and Hindu friends who go to temple (practising) have not been folowwing their diet very strictly. Everytime we go BK, they will still wack beef. It will not be consistent if Buddhists and Hindu suddenly demand to eat seperately.
But my Muslim friends (practising ones not the hoo-haa ones) have been very consistent in their diet.
The issue has been raised before by our then-PM Goh Chock Tong. There seems to be a growing awareness of Islam among Muslims. They are know more aware, more staunch and more practising. When last time they could sit together, know they follow the laws more strictly. Last time they could eat anywhere as long there is no pork, no lard, now they want the halal sign.
Goh Chock Tong asked before in his speech, how do we deal with this Islamization of the world, the spread of Islam throughout the globe? He also asked the Muslims, which band of Islam will they be?
There is a growing section of us that choose to follow Islam very strictly indeed. It does not mean they are terrorist. It means that they are following the code more strictly. This comes about because they perceive that Islam is under fire, by Americans who keep on bombing Muslims, by Jews who keep on killing Muslims. This "banding" together for comfort has created very staunch Muslims we have today who will only sit down and eat at halal certified premises. They will not have it any other way.
By organising a boycott of halal food, we are polarising society even further.
Halim, true friendship is unconditional, in case you don't know.
ReplyDeleteCan I take you to Page 10 of the Straits Times today, Mar 10, 2008 about Kelantan, the puritan Islamic State of Malaysia.
I quote, "We can eat bak kut teh (spicy pork soup) and drink beeer and have pig farms in Kelantan." This is reported by one Mr Hu Pang Chaw, a regular churchgoer who is also president of the 2 00-strong PAS Supporters' Club here (Kelantan).
Not surprising (so long as we disregard the scares from UMNO). In fact, SE Asia largest reclining Buddha is build in the Islamic State of Kelantan!
What more this is secular Singapore, Halim. So please give & take, my Muslim brother. This is the road to Teleban Afganistan.
According to a hadeeth narrated by Jaabir, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day, let him not sit at a table where wine is being served.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, al-Adab, 2725; classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh Sunan al-Tirmidhi, 2246). The commentator on the hadeeth said: even if he does not drink with them, it is as if he is approving of their evil action.
ReplyDeleteFollowing ones' religion very strictly and becoming staunch believers is not the same as becoming extreme and single-minded.
ReplyDeleteI do not believe any religion teaches that a believer should not sit with others eating THEIR DIFFERENTLY PREPARED FOODS. Nor have I read anything having such rulings.
This Blog is doing us a great favour to allow us to discuss and discern misconceptions and faulty understandings of our beliefs. My interest in religions and religious rituals led me to understand that many believers made a mockery of their beliefs by behaving deviantly and deviously from the teachings of their religions.
The Blog reflected how some believers believe that they want to separate themselves resulting in divides, segregations and animosities. Yet they say they want to be friendly, live in peace with others and be part of mankind as a whole, can You?
Do what You do, never demand that others behave like you, especially when you are dictating, unmendable, inflexible and confrontational.
Man, I learnt Toaism from my mother, Christianity and Islam from my friends, relatives, neighbours. I ended up reading the different religions from books, periodicals such as My Daily Bread etc. And I became an atheist sometimes back.
One understanding I have of religions is that none teaches bad behaviours. But the understanding of worldly issues are hardly comprehensive and progressive. It is now 2008, so refering to materials 1000s of year earlier may not be a wise way to live ones' existence.
Be kind, be conscientious, helpful and proper need not have to come from religious teachings. YOU, BY VIRTUE OF BEING A MAN(KIND), SHOULD EMBRACE THE VIRTUES. It is as simple as this.
ThankYou all for reading!
patriot.
Let me requote, "What's the point of posting your Muis speach here? We could also put stuff from the Bible, from the Analects, from the Bhagavad Gita, Talmud, Tao-te-Ching, Upanishads, etc...
ReplyDeleteThat's your belief, that's up to you. No one is contesting that.
However, posting that here just shows how insensitive you are to other people's beliefs and rights.
This is the exact kind of mindset and thinking that leads to imposing your religious restrictions on everyone else."
You want to stick to the topic at hand, or do you want to go about with your religious rantings?
Your belief is your belief. If you want to be a fanatic about it, then why don't you take a knife and stab anyone who eats pork, drinks or smoke? It's all viewed unfavorably in your teachings isn't it? Go ahead.
Many muslims smoke and drink. Go start with them.
also, the argument that other religions do not forbid consumption of Halal food is a fallacy. Sikhism forbids consumption of halal or kosher foods. The implementation of any halal-only policy nationwide will discriminate against the Sikhs.
ReplyDeleteYes patriot, i know what you mean.
ReplyDeleteLet's not fire the Muslim guy for pasting his hadeeth here. In fact I'm glad he did.
It helps me understand better the motivations and psyche of our Muslim Singaporeans who are increasingly turning towards their religion.
Yes I notice it somehow. Hate to say this but its very obvious to me. Muslims are becoming very religious these days.
I remembered when I was in the army (in the early 70s when we were still wearing the plain green uniform) , Muslims and non-Muslims ate together in the same canteen. Pork or no pork, it was ok for them to sit with us.
But lately there seems to be a revival of Islam. My son told me that at Pulau Tekong BMTC, the canteen is divided into 2 seperate areas - you guessed it, Muslim and Non Muslim.
That is why i concur with the title of this post: is halal food dividing us? It seems like it is.
So what does this means for us non-Muslims of Singapore? (I'm sikh btw)
Option 1: We can fight this revival of Islam. If they choose not to sit with us, we can just say to them "To hell with you and your religion". They choose to be more strict in their religion, we can choose to ignore them.
Option 2: We could join them to eat halal food. I'm not sure about u, but my religion is ok with me eating halal food. If we choose to eat halal food, we will not have situations where canteens are divided into 2. once again, our youth can be together, talking and joking together like the good old days.
My worry if we choose option 1 : we ignore them and say to hell with them. you wanna eat your halal food? then go! i dun give a fuck. but wat will happen my friend?
the Muslims will eat only with the Muslims, they will not sit with us anymore - this polarises them EVEN FURTHER. and they might grow more radical. we will have a big problem once this happens.
Or we can choose option 2 : we eat halal food with them and use halal food as the common denominator like the author says. as such, this revival of islam and the halal system impact on us is minimalised.
this is why i support the idea of more halal estabs. it's an idea thats hard to digest, esp considering the fact that we need to do the giving in. but remember sometimes u need to give in ur troops to win the war.
I dunno bout u but I as an elder Singaporean is just sad to see this phenomenon of canteens increasingly divided. Halal and non-Halal. reminds me of the apartheid. Blacks sit at a different area from the non-blacks.
I miss the good old 70's when we can all sit together. when Muslims didnt mind. But now they have become more aware of their religion.
It's smth we cannot change. I guess it all up to us to adapt or fight it.
In a related development McDonalds will soon be making all of its outlet in the US and UK Halal according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halal
ReplyDeleteLooks like Halal is taking over the globe.
Like i said. its up to us to fight it and unite them further. or just fuck it and MAKAN la dei.....
Jai;
ReplyDeletethanks for your response.
I am 57 year old and have many Muslim friends and like what You have said, I too noticed the developments taking place.
When I was a recruit in the Police Academy and before that in the Army(NS), cooking utensils and serving tables were separate for Halal and non-halal foods. However where one sat and ate was up to the eaters. It is very much like a Halal Food operator in a usual coffee shop. Hala Foods are sold amongst non-halal stalls and everybody chooses what they want and then sit together and enjoy the meals.
It is terribly disappointing to see segregations by races, religions and what not. Do we really believe that one day we will have Halal fuel, Halal airplane, Halal bed, Halal water and everything?
Nature makes us beings and beings have to enlighten themselves to virtues and not to isolate oneself into bigotry. May everyone for a moment think through oneself instead of relying on others for guidances. Do no sin to others and one will be fine and be fine to others.
humbly yrs, patriot
ur in singapore, a land of food. everybody must be given that option to choose and select whatever they want to eat. got variety is better right? so if a business wants to be accessible to the muslim market, thats a business strategy, not a racial division society.
ReplyDeleteanyway, the majority of singaporeans can also eat halal food what.. vegan meals can be prepared in a halal way what.. just don't put alcohol la. its not like its any different, or more harmful, just that the food source and preparation has to meet certain requirements. if u want to eat pork.. can always get, is not like u can't get pork, there are non halal outlets too, u noe, to meet that segment of the market.
the thing is singapore isn't a non muslim society, or a muslim society, or an anti religious society. although it is secular, it is still a muti religious, multi racial society.. so naturally, there will be many different needs and wants, which is just excellent for business. the more varied the market segments are, the better. not only for business providers but also for customers. customers get more options. Which is Superb for those who have no particular dietry requirements..they don't lose out in anyway,they can eat whatever they want. u can think of it as an increase in the variety of foods available. it doesn't have to be a religious issue.. everybody can eat something everybody will be happy.
its not like the non muslim cant eat halal food. its not like muslims cannot eat vegan or seafood.
the limitation, is simply self imposed. okay, to a certain extent there is a religious requirement.. but then if u really want to eat together muslims/hindus/vegans/others... u can, it really depends on what ur comfortable with. there's a certain thing called 'being considerate' and also you can always ask. there's no need to be so agitated by people's religious beliefs... u don't practise it, if they can't eat with u, next time when ur sick of char siew, u can eat something that you can eat with them... some people can exercise flexibility, some people because of their faith, can't. their not imposing their faith on you.. so.. chill. why take it personally?
basically there's no way to validate religious beliefs with science because those who practise religion will practise it because of faith not because it is vindicated by science. so it is really pointless to argue logically on this point.. anyway, in the end, hello what is logic? ur assumption on logic is based on your human perceptions. which can be flawed. so if certain people will do things because a higher being thinks that is best for them.. it's their business what. u don't like it.. nobody is forcing u to believe in it. u have options. ok fine, there won't ever be a mc. pork burger in McDonalds Singapore, but there are other things to eat, like BEEF burger or FIsh Burger or french fries. if you really insist on Pork Burger, then there are many countries in the world that are non religious, with no particular food requirements. the thing is, ur in sg. a multi religious, multi racial country.
in the end it is just food. halal in today's world is just some standardization requirement process.. no need to think of it as a Islamization of anything.. choices are still open in the end.. so why be paranoid? u can still eat with ur muslim friends.. if their religion forbids them to do something, u don't have to take it as a personal blow, they just can't, nothing personal. always can eat with them if u want to. they can just spend time with u when ur doing something else other than eating what.. i'm sure there are other common things than food, that makes the both of u friends in the first place.. gosh..
Exactly!
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing that these people choose to seperate themselves, then turn around and tell the rest of us that we have to follow their restrictions or we are creating a divide.
At the same time, they find the suggestion that we all turn away from meat completely to accomodate vegans preposterous.
Muslim McAttack
ReplyDeleteMcDonald's all over the world are turning halal!
First UK, US, Singapore, now Australia.....
McDONALD'S latest bid to attract more customers -- Muslim fast-food lovers -- has caused uproar among customers. The fast-food chain has introduced halal products at two Melbourne restaurants, significantly boosting sales.
However some non-Muslim customers are furious they were not told their hamburger meat was slaughtered and blessed in accordance with Islamic rules laid down in the Koran.
Kindly allow me to disclose a little personal affairs.
ReplyDeleteMy family comprises of Toaism, Buddhism, Christian and Muslim members.
Me is born in a Taoist believers family, however, I decided at a very young age of about ten year old to atheism. Somehow, I was(am) very interested and keen to look deeper into religious beliefs, rituals and enjoyed the celebrations by the different Faiths tremendously.
I even find meanings in the many rituals involved in funeral and burial of the passings of lives of the different cultures
Similarly, rituals in weddings and new births have meaningful purposes minus the superstitions.
As a kid, I got to participate in many of the celebrations and rituals. Even today, I do my best to follow customs as close as I could and only keep a distance when I am unable to join in.
An observation that everyone must have noticed is that; even before a child is born, he/she is subjected to religious initiations by their elders. Many elders pray for offsprings which is likely to be the case when marriage took place. Usually, it is taken that the wishes are answered and granted by a higher being and thanksgivings will be offered.
The newborns will undergo certain rituals and will be brought up to embrace the Faith of the families. The innocent, ignorant child has no choice until such time that he/she could make their own decisions. I do not know about others, I allow my family members, including my children, grandchildren to choose their beliefs. The only wish I have is that they will not involve me in rituals and prayers that I am uncomfortable with, otherwise I will participate happily.
Imagine now, that I have to conform to the different rites and beliefs of my family members. How could I ever be with all the family members at the same place and time? Only when we are all doing nothing?
Mine is not a unique case. In multi racial, multi religious and multi faction(religion wise) societies which is the case for most countries in this globalising era, there will be more and more multi-belief families.
A very delicate and complex problem can only be overcome by tolerance, respect and sensibility and in this particular issue of religions, I think SENSIBILITY is vital. Conversely, running away from the difficulties or retreats into ones' own colonies will cause frictions, conflicts and uncalled animosities.
Man(kind) got to rid off their bigotry, insular mentality, superstition and last but not least conceit.
Regards, patriot.
To Muslim McAttack
ReplyDelete"McDonald's all over the world are turning halal!"
You have digressed.
In secular Singapore, it doesn't bother anyone if MacDonald, Kentucky Fried Chicken, etc., decide to go 'halal'. It's the private sector and the bottomline is PROFIT. Understand.
Ah . . . but it's different for a public institution. The taxpayers (paymaster) are non-Muslims. Have you heard of "He who pays the pipper calls the tune."
You yourself decide right whether you wish to pay and eat MacDonald or Kentucky Fried Chicken? Would you like to be dictated to on your choice when you are paying for it?
Simple, right? Even a primary school kid can understand that this is ECONOMICS not religion. ECONOMICS!
I'm a non-Muslim and i've been watching this debate unfold.
ReplyDeleteAs far as i'm concerned, this debate topic is "which would you choose, char siew or your muslim friend"
it seems that singaporeans have overwhelmingly selected char siew.
well done guys.
Reading comments left by non-Muslim singaporeans here reminds me of the good government we have that we sometimes take for granted.
ReplyDeleteThe government is so much more compassionate and understanding to our needs. In my reservist camp, our halal food is cared for. In my civil service dept staff canteen, our halal areas are kept and tended for. In my CC activities, all food is halal.
I shudder to think what would happen if the opposition takes over, judging from the voices here in this blog who have spoken.
I am glad that I voted our current government in for the sake of racial harmony. My vote goes to them for a long time to come.
Dear Mat Jambul and anonymous commenter before him:
ReplyDeleteYou guys are missing the entire point of all this. First of all, no non-Muslim is saying there should not be halal food at all!
The point of all this is that the accommodation that the original writer is arguing for is completely one-sided. It's either his way, or no way at all! And then non-Muslims are accused of being intolerant if they don't do things his way.
Instead of saying haughtily that the halal way is the only permissible way for interaction, he should be urging members of his own faith to not be so rigid such that they refuse to sit with others who don't share the same dietary restrictions.
I've never heard any non-Muslim saying they don't want to eat beside a Muslim eating halal food (and if I heard someone say that, believe me, I'll be the first one to smack him silly). It seems to be the other way round ALL THE TIME.
Why?
To the anonymous commenter who said "this debate topic is 'which would you choose, char siew or your muslim friend'":
ReplyDeleteI think the real debate topic is for the Muslim, and it is this:
Which would you choose, sitting with a non-muslim friend eating his own food, or getting all picky about what he chooses to eat?
To the anonymous guy who posted the hadeeth narrated by Jaabir (etc)
ReplyDelete“Whoever believes in Allaah and the Last Day, let him not sit at a table where wine is being served.”
The commentator on the hadeeth said: even if he does not drink with them, it is as if he is approving of their evil action.
The whole point of this present discussion is the eating of halal food!!! I think no one needs religious justification to realise the potential social harm of drunkenness. But who does the person eating non-halal harm aside from himself (if at all)? This quote is completely irrelevant.
If you can find a similar quote pertaining to eating pork/non-halal food, then do post it. But otherwise, alcohol is completely irrelevant to this present discussion.
The complete arrogance of these Muslims (not all... just the ones who feel it's their way, or no way) is just astounding!
ReplyDeleteI notice not a single one of them has commented on their willingness to give up all meats to accommodate vegans among us.
The rest of us HAVE to let your religion dictate our diets or we are the ones causing dissention?
Based on all your replies, it's easy to see now how this problem came about to begin with. Your one sided, myopic view on the world and the way things should be is beyond belief.
Jai, so what's next? If they say we can't hold our girlfriend's hands in public will your stand also be, "Ok, so we don't hold. If not we wil be creating a divide."
ReplyDeleteIf they say our women must wear veils? "Ok so they wear if not we will be creating a divide"?
There is giving in, then there is being bullied into giving in.
Someone posted earlier as well; Instead of them making such unnecessary demands, why don't they look to themselves and realise that they are creating the division and come to terms to the fact that Singapore is a multi-cultured, multi-religious society and they need to learn to get along with other people's beliefs and way of life.
To Mat Jambol
ReplyDelete"I am glad that I voted our current government in for the sake of racial harmony. My vote goes to them for a long time to come."
Very dangerous talk Mat (Mohammed). Using the ballot to impose your religious edicts upon non-Muslims. Please, sensitivity goes 2 ways. Imagine Buddhists, Hindus or Christians behaving and talking like you.
What's next? Tudong in lieu of school uniform, separate gender queues, solidarity fasting, 5 am wake-up call for all Singaporeans, etc.
No wonder the majority Muslims in Malaysia enact the pro-Malay NEP amongst others to discriminate against the minority taxpaying non-Muslims.
Here, in secular Singapore I think we are more than generous to our Muslim brethren - mosques & madrashahs abound, free primary & secondary education, public funding for MENDAKI, Town Council assistance, Halal vendors, proportional reservation of state subsidised housing, public service jobs, religious public holidays, provision of MT & IRK learning, etc.
Mat, have as much 'halal' food as you want to yourself but let's share the common space for all of God's creatures to live and let's live.
the real question when it comes to religion is, where do you draw the line? today it's food. yesterday it was the head scarves. tomorrow, i announce that my religion requires that i leave work at 3pm for worship or that i can only wear green flip flops to work. it may sound trivial but green flip flops are essential to my faith. some religious rules are clearly nonsensical to me but who i am to question what people want to believe. as long as my freedoms are not infringed upon, i will put up with whatever you want to believe in. but when the line is crossed, then it's a free for all.
ReplyDeleteWhy must we choose between Char Siew and Muslim friends?
ReplyDeleteCan't we eat Char Siew and sit together with muslim friends at the same time? Is that against any Islam law?
We sit together in a public, common space. I don't stop you from eating yours, you don't stop me from eating mine. Can or not, Mat?
ReplyDeletei think the halal sign appears divisive because:
ReplyDelete1. muslims think of it as a muslims-only symbol
2. non muslims think of it as a muslims-only symbol
both are wrong.
It merely symbolizes.
1. food served here can be consumed by muslims too.
its inclusive nature makes it an attractive financial incentive to the f&b industry. because instead of cutting off the muslim segment of the consumer market. muslims too can enjoy the food along with everyone else.
there's no more poison, or less poison.
mat jambul
is merely grateful for a mainly non muslim govt, treating him as no less or more a singaporean. People of all faiths and beliefs enjoy the life here because
1. they are treated as singaporeans first, whatever religion, race or language 2nd.
The we against them attitude has to go. It makes it difficult to live in a multi religious and multi racial singapore.
The racial/ religious politics of Malaysia shouldn't interfere with that of Singapore. Otherwise 1. we're no better than them 2. we're just like them.
1. Some foods regardless of whether is halal or not, will offend you. This goes to all Singaporeans.
So the solution to this is tact, graciousness and being considerate and where you can exercise flexibility be flexible.
If some one wants to eat something you don't like. Its not a sign forcing you to eat it. Its not always a sign of insensitivity of your beliefs. Its just because they wanna eat something they like. Its just like when beef eaters eat beef in front of vegan friends and hindu or bhuddhist friends. Are beef eaters always trying to offend them? Do beef eaters always have malicious intentions? I doubt so. I mean if non beef eaters feel offended and think of it as absolutely disgusting, when you have unintentionally did so, apologize.If you don't give a damn and its your close friends. I'm sure they will close one eye as you let it go in one ear and out the other. Its like how ang moh think our durian is some rubbish disgusting fruit. Its just what they think.
Japanese can't have their food mixed, to them only dogs eat that way. Its up to the both of you, to which extent the both of you want to compromise.
Well for one let’s be fair here and give credit where credit is due:
ReplyDelete1. The writer’s post about vegetarians in another post has been grossly taken out of context. Let me quote from “Thought Provoker” on tomorrow.sg which I agree with:
Although the author (Ridzwan) was against vegetarianism, it was directed towards those who were overly aggressive regarding the matter. He specifically mentioned that he had no issues with vegans who were so due to religious reasons and did not make a big issue out of it. I suspect that he would feel similarly outraged if his fellow brethren from the Muslim community were equally aggressive regarding their own convictions on Halal food.
The first quote is the author's philosophical pondering whereas the second is his personal feelings regarding an experience. Seems as though the arguments from 2 different posts were taken out of context here.
2. Let’s not berate the Muslim’s choice of politicians. But seriously, one cannot deny it. The ruling government IS the only one who have, can and will take care of them in the future. Somehow, this is not something that only Malays feel. Me being from a minority race myself, also feels this way. The opposition feels “too Chinese” here. Jambul may be justified in saying that the ruling government is the only one that can maintain the halal status quo.
Btw, i would like to correct the misconception that sikhs cannot eat halal food. we can actually.
I have a question for Mat Jambul, who said "In my CC activities, all food is halal."
ReplyDeleteIf in your CC activities, there was halal food AS WELL AS non-halal food at the same time, would you still go? If not, why?
Greetings to all. I’m a Muslim and I hope I can clarify things:
ReplyDelete1. Yes, it is NOT permissible for Muslims to sit at the same table where alcohol is served. Alcohol is considered a great vice for practicing Muslims and to sit with it constitutes an act of condone.
2. NO, it is NOT forbidden for Muslims to sit at the same table as someone who eats pork. There is NO ruling in Islam that says we must only eat with people who eat Halal food.
HOWEVER
The concern comes about due to experience of cross contamination. Me and my friends’ experience with Chinese buddies is that they do not use a serving spoon when eating common dishes together. You know how sometimes we like to pass food around when eating together? I don’t eat egg, would you like to have my egg? I don’t eat the prawn you want my prawn? Or offering a common dish to the table, like a friend taking some vegetables from the common dish onto his friend’s plate with the chopsticks that he uses to eat his dish?
To avoid this embarrassing situation, some have chosen to eat at Halal-only places where food can be passed around like real friends. But somehow it has been interpreted as we do not want to sit at the same table as pork.
In fact if you read properly, the writer did mention that the cause of this concern is simply the fear of cross contamination. But somehow anger just boiled over many failed to see his writing clearly, we’re humans I guess.
Dear Jai,
ReplyDeleteYou wrote: "The writer’s post about vegetarians in another post has been grossly taken out of context. Let me quote from “Thought Provoker” on tomorrow.sg which I agree with: [etc]"
How are the quotes out of context?
I quote this present food on halal food.
"A student there can now bring in pork and other non-Halal items into the canteen. It remains unclear if his Muslim friends, who could previously join him at the same table over a lunch, will still do so once this happens."
How are these Muslim friends who would not join the non-halal eating friend at the table any different from the vegetarian who refuses to go to the barbeque (even though he can eat vegetarian food) because of the "grill of death"?
If he is not accepting of the vegetarian's point of view, how can he push for his own point of view with respect to halal food?
After all, from this present post again, "all it takes is the shedding of some non-Halal items from the menu and lunch takes on a whole new social meaning." Change non-halal to non-vegetarian, and you have exactly the same argument.
Answer me this: why couldn't they have done away with the meat in the barbeque so that the vegetarian friend could have joined them in their social gathering?
Unless you have a better reply than that which you said already of a vegetarian diet requiring greater change than a halal diet, the argument is parallel.
In fact, why couldn't the original writer go vegetarian for just one barbeque? Is his meat more important than his friendship?
The very same things that he says against the vegetarian can be said against what he is a proponent of here. Out of context?
Furthermore, from the commenter on tomorrow.sg, "he specifically mentioned that he had no issues with vegans who were so due to religious reasons and did not make a big issue out of it".
If the vegetarian followed such a diet for religious reason indeed, would he then have made his barbeque (and every single social occasion afterwards) meat-free?
In fact, so what if he followed a vegetarian diet for any reason other than a religious one? If it is a deeply held conviction, how is it different from any other?
Right now, it appears to me that some commenters here indeed making a big issue out of it, saying "EAT HALAL FOOD OR I WUN FREN YOU", without so much as a by your leave. The present writer himself is saying as much, by condoning in the last line of his post the behaviour of those who might not sit with non-halal eating people anymore.
Who is anyone to decide for anyone else what diet to eat? I don't tell a Muslim, or an African, or an Eskimo, or a Martian, what he can or cannot eat; why should anyone judge me by what I eat?
Dear Fazlur,
ReplyDeleteThank you for this: "NO, it is NOT forbidden for Muslims to sit at the same table as someone who eats pork. There is NO ruling in Islam that says we must only eat with people who eat Halal food."
However, your big HOWEVER is indeed a big cause for concern.
"You know how sometimes we like to pass food around when eating together?"
"...where food can be passed around like real friends."
I don't know about you, but I don't have to share food with friends to feel like I am friends with them. I'm usually more concerned about things like character, similarity in outlook, sentiment, and pursuits, and just generally being able to get along. You know, insignificant things like that.
If you're really so concerned about cross-contamination, just don't share lar; if some non-Muslim says he "wun fren you" cos you not sharing food with him, you tell me I go and smack him silly for you okay?
I just hope you will do the same for me.
We're not living in the real world, are we?
ReplyDeleteTake NewWater. Did we now that we are all drinking recycled sewage water? Water that we flush down the toilet bowls. Water we use to wash non 'halal' substances like pork. Furthermore, much of the revenue the government collect to pay public servants, give as handouts, etc., comes from non 'halal2 sources like the totalisator board, liquor taxes, etc. This is the real world.
And finally this is what all you food lovers have been waiting for. Check out the latest superfood in MacDonald Smith's http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/main.jhtml?xml=/health/2008/03/03/hage103.xml&DCMP=ILC-traffdrv07053100
I suggest we leave religious beliefs aside.
ReplyDeleteNot appropriate for you to comment on the real world.
If hindus can believe that the cow is a God, if Chinese can believe that burn paper money will reach their dead, if xtians can believe that there is someone in the sky, then muslims can believe that the pig is an unclean animal.
the world we live in is not real.
Jai, you're such a pawn. If you really are Sikh, do you realize how much you've already bent over backwards to accomodate Muslims among us? Please go look up Jhatka Meats.
ReplyDeleteYou are so willing to forgo your religious teachings to fit into our multi-racial/cultured society and then support the fanatic demands of these few Muslims who create the problem of "friendship or pork", then cry when they can't get their way?
To Jai.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen anyone say that Muslims aren't allowed to view Pigs as dirty and have to eat them.
No one is even saying we won't eat Halal food.
Uunfortunately for them/us, Halal also means no Pork. Something that most non-Muslims really enjoy. So it's not as simple as "just eat Halal, it's all the same".
If we can consider them friends regardless of what they do, or do not, consume. Why must they be so judgemental of what we consume?
Why create such an unnecessary problem? Why can't they just eat their Halal food and we consume ours at the same table?
To Fazlur,
ReplyDeleteDidnt see your post earlier. Thank you for confirming that Muslims can indeed eat at the same table as someone who eats pork. I somehow knew that there isnt a prohibition in Islam such as that.
However I feel that if Muslims are afraid of the sharing of common utensils, such as friends offering you dishes when he is eating pork, its no harm to just voice it out. It's better than to sit at seperate tables.
To anonymous who claims i'm bending over to the Muslims.
Now you tell me how am i bending over?
Are my rights reduced by eating halal food? I still get my beef, my chicken, my vegetables, fish everything. They are all there. I don't eat pork anyway so how am i bending over by allowing halal food?
Living in Singapore we have to give and take.
Every August, Muslims will have to bear with the smoke and pollution that chinese cause with their hungry ghost worship. and they do'nt have a choice mind you. they have to breathe anyway. do they consider that bending over?
if just by eating halal food and u consider that bending over, then i fear for Singapore.
Look to GOD. GOD is peace. HE is unity not divisive.
ReplyDeletePoso, Indonesia, is wrecked continually by religious strifes - between the Muslims and Christians.
God has finally come to mend and bring about reconciliation amongst His people. Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/v/vSlKKHoBXf4&rel=1
To Jai,
ReplyDeleteYou have been so oblivious throughout this entire comment frenzy, but your latest comment really takes the cake. Even I who didn't know anything about Jhatka meat until now (and who said the internet wasn't educational?), could tell the whole point in a second thanks to google.
Just an interesting aside, the webpage which informed me of that ( http://www.sikhs.org/meat.htm ) also had this to say.
"The reason why meat is not served at langar in the Gurdwaras is because langar is supposed to be a symbol of equality of mankind where all people no matter what race, religion or caste can eat toghether in the atmosphere of brotherhood. Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, it does not matter who they are. Different religions have different dietary restrictions. Hindus cannot eat cow, muslims cannot eat pork and will only eat halal meat. Jews will only eat kosher meat, others cannot eat fish or eggs. But in a gurdwara langar, it does not matter what their dietary taboos or religious beliefs are, the food is designed so that all can eat together and no one will be offended or not be able to partake of the meal."
So yes! Vegetarianism as the common denominator for everyone to bound! And why not?
For anyone else who can't be bothered to google it up, it appears that Sikhs have a restriction too when it comes to meat, and they can't eat halal meat. Thus, your anonymous commenter's remark, Jai.
Now, I don't care how you made peace with that, but I'm really interested in your other comment about the pollution caused by Chinese burning stuff. Just for the record, I don't approve of that stuff myself (I can suggest science to the rescue: install fume cabinets so the smoke can be shunted away instead of polluting the environment).
There is give and take when it comes to other people's religions for sure; I have to deal with traffic snarls on Friday afternoons, and Sunday mornings, and I get woken up at dawn by the call to prayer. And I respect these things for sure.
However, the real parallel argument of burning things in this present context of halal food would be that Chinese burnt stuff, and then said everyone else had to burn stuff with them too or they wouldn't be friends with them.
Does anyone else find that position supportable? I sure hope not.
So why is this same position supported when it comes to halal food?
btw if i recall, if you travel overseas, and there are no reasonable places for halal food, muslims are allowed to eat non halal food.
ReplyDeleteTo Jai.
ReplyDeleteIt was already posted - Jhatka Meat. Did you bother looking it up? In fact, as a Sikh (if you really are) you shouldn't even have to look it up.
You still need it spelt out for you how you are bending over by consuming Halal food?
You fear for Singapore? I fear for Singapore too if other religions don't even know their own doctrines and are so willing to give in to another's unrealistic demands. This puts us just one step away from having our women covered head to foot and being called to Friday prayers regardless of our own beliefs.
Jai, if you don't know your own religious teachings maybe you're not the best person to be giving advice to the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteJhatka meat - http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Jhatka+meat
I appreciate you fearing for Singapore, but maybe you should worry about yourself a little more first.
To the anonymous who posted all the links with regards to the langgar.
ReplyDeleteJust googling about Sikhism suddenly makes you an expert at Sikhism? I suggest you read the things you have posted very carefully. The prohibitions on where and when we can eat meat in right there in your posts.
It's a good thing you chose to remain anonymous. You would have humiliated yourself greatly.
But thanks, I really had a good laugh looking at you trying to advice me on my religion. I have forwarded this post to my friends to spread the humour.
Why don't you come down this Sunday to Branksome Road and "enlighten" the rest of us about our religion? If you are serious in getting to know the religions better, you would take up my offer instead of making up excuses. Don't worry, we accept everyone on Sundays and there is free vegetarian food also.
The anonymous who tried to educate a Sikh on his religion is clearly fuelled by hatred.
ReplyDeleteI work in a government dept and I'm not a Muslim. Our staff cafeteria is hala. I'm not sure how my eating at hala places is deemd as bending over.
The food is still the same. There is still loh mai kai, still char kway teow. still hokkien mee. its all chinese sellers, only that its hala that's all.
i think you need to be more objective and not be fuelled by hatred. ur hatred for the muslims is obvious in ur posts.
to jai. dun take it to heart. its the school holidays. u gotta understand lots of kids online for the next one week ;)
For goodness sake Jai, you really have a problem with reading any post that is longer than three lines, and using words with more than two syllables.
ReplyDeleteI never claimed to be an expert on Sikh religious practices, and in fact, I said as much when I said "I don't care how you made peace with that". When I mentioned the langgar, I just thought the justification of vegetarianism there interesting in the light of the refusal of the writer of this post to accept vegetarianism as a basis for social interaction.
You however, did not answer my question afterwards, about the hypothetical (sorry, hypothetical means "we pretend a bit but it's not really like that hor?") situation of Chinese insisting that everyone burns paper with them or they wouldn't be friends with them anyway.
While I wait for your answer on that (which frankly I don't expect, since you've answered not one of the excellent questions up to this point), I'd just like to point to that same link on http://www.sikhs.org/meat.htm which has this to say.
"And one semitic practice clearly rejected in the Sikh code of conduct is eating flesh of an animal cooked in ritualistic manner; this would mean kosher and halal meat."
I'm no expert, and that's why I ask you now. What does that mean other than "Sikhs can't eat kosher and halal meat"?
And now, I AM curious: what is your response to that statement? Do you think that it's irrelevant to your personal religious practice? Do you think the Sikhs who practise that only represent a restricted section of the community? What?
In any case, I am very glad for your invitation, and I most certainly will avail myself of it very soon!
And for Twit, maybe it's some really ironic use of your moniker (name, okay), but I'd humbly suggest you read the posts carefully before you comment (especially as Twit). I mean, if you don't want to read, don't read lar; all arguments on the internet are conducted by idiots anyway. But if you DO want to comment, then do everyone a courtesy first and engage in the posts intellectually before shooting off on your tea break at the office.
Dear Twit,
ReplyDeleteYou're missing the whole point altogether. Here I might add something snarky about being fueled by idiocy, but let's just leave that aside for now shall we.
Your foodcourt sounds excellent. Now, here's a question for you. Can someone bring food from home? Maybe he's saving up for his weekend car, so he makes a ham sandwich at home. Can he eat it in your foodcourt? Will his Muslim colleagues still sit with him?
If the answer to those two questions is no, then it's the Muslims who have to answer why they have such demands.
If the answer is yes, then why can't we go on to the next logical step and have foodcourts with both halal stalls and non-halal stalls?
And here, to mix it all up for a bit more fun, it appears (until Jai the omniscient tells us otherwise) that Sikhs cannot eat halal food! So how now? They suck thumb ah?
"When I was in school, we had a designated eating table for Muslim students. We never had the chance to mingle with our non-Muslim friends over canteen breaks. The Muslims had their “spot”, while the non-Muslims had theirs."
ReplyDeletei don't remember it as that... i don't think there was actually a designation... i think it was a personal choice to sit where we chose to sit... that is all... and bro... take a chill pill ok... to each his own... tolerance is key... one has to be fair to other races, religions and communities too...
Huh?
ReplyDeleteSince when sikhs cannot eat halal food? All the bayi at my workplace have been wacking mcdonalds, pizzahut kfc. all halal.
since when bayi cannot eat halal food?
"Since when sikhs cannot eat halal food? All the bayi at my workplace have been wacking mcdonalds, pizzahut kfc. all halal.
ReplyDeletesince when bayi cannot eat halal food"
The joke is the world has changed. Call them hypocrites or munafix or whatever. It doesn't really matter anymore. Does anyone notice the change these days. If not, because it has become the norm.
Many young Sikhs don't sport the beard or don the turban anymore. And Malays can be seen queuing up to buy toto, 4-D, etc., at the shops. They are also drinking beer and stout happily at the kopitiams.
This is a free world. Even from the earliest beginning the Almighty God is liberal and left one to his/her own choice. He himself placed the apple tree before Adam and Eve (Hawa) and merely asked that they do not eat of the forbidden fruit. The choice is theirs. GOD gives man the FREEDOM of choice. That means the decision is not forced upon them or coerced but with choice the decision must come from one's HEART not otherwise. It's certainly not because we want to show that we are holier than our neighbours!
Therein, lies "FREEDOM", this big word enshrined and emboldened in the American Constitution!
since when bayi cannot eat halal food?
ReplyDeleteIf Muslims are in a land where there's no Halal food, they're allowed to eat non-Halal food.
And not everyone is equally fastidious about observing religious customs - many Muslims eat non-Halal food as long as there's no pork. Many Muslims drink alcohol also (though that is arguably a somewhat separate issue).
When I was on Obedience School (BMT), one Sikh ate non-Halal food because he couldn't eat Halal food.
Do we really believe that one day we will have Halal fuel, Halal airplane, Halal bed, Halal water and everything?
We already have Halal ice - Tuck Lee Ice Works ("Have ice will revel").
Btw, the Coke and worms thing is an urban legend. Plus, my friend tried it but nothing happened.
ReplyDeleteI would suggest doubters try it out, but the only people who would be utterly convinced are never going to be in a position to do so.
Hallo.
ReplyDeleteI am a German working in Malaysia and was alerted to this posting by a Malaysian colleague.
I cannot help ask this question as I am not familiar with Singaporeans .
Are all Singaporeans so shallow minded?
We Germans are the worst consumers of Pork in Europe and here I am in Malaysia where alot of things have to be Halal and I don't have any problems with it. Neither do the rest of the Germans in our company ( We are a German MNC ).
This matter is too small to be argued to this extend. If you want to eat pork, I believe there are many other places you can do so in Singapore. BK real bacons are not that great to begin with. But I have Muslim friends whom I value dearly and I like the idea of having Halal restaurants where I can dine with them.
Why make such a big fuss to the extend of boycotting the restaurants with Halal logo? Don't you people have a fugitive to look for?
Anon 11:57 pm.
ReplyDeleteI am not going to say that You are wrong, but, I am terribly disappointed that there are people who refuse to share a table with friends and colleague etc for a meal.
Such extreme reactions no matter how good the intention, is simply selfish. No one anywhere is saying others must eat the food one is consuming. You eat your halal food and I eat my non halal food from different plates but CAN'T WE SHARE THE SAME TABLE?
Hope You get the point.
patriot.
Dear German in Malaysia,
ReplyDeleteI'm not familiar with Germans; are all Germans this shallow? Have Germans heard of the phrase, "the principle of the matter", or do Germans not have principles?
Unlike you, I know there have been some Germans who were amongst the finest people the world has ever produced, but unfortunately I wouldn't extend that to you.
In any case, I don't blame you for not having read through all the comments carefully; after all, don't you have a tax scandal at home to sort out?
So I'll just distill it for you. It's not a matter of non-Muslims eating halal food (well, maybe for Sikhs it might be a problem, but the definitive word isn't in yet); it's a matter of choosing to eat what you want without having someone else judge you for it.
How about this? In Germany, a Muslim refuses to sit next to you while you tuck in to sauerkraut and bratwurst, and then accuses you of not wanting to interact with him.
Nobody minds a bit of give and take, but the principle that the original writer proposes simply states that it's all take and no give, and if you don't like it, they won't even be friends with you. How's that?
"But I have Muslim friends whom I value dearly and I like the idea of having Halal restaurants where I can dine with them."
So just hypothetically, if you were in a situation where you could eat non-halal food, and they could eat halal food in the same place (for example, in a food court), how would you feel if they're suddenly not such good friends with you anymore?
I'm American. I'm German. I'm French. I'm Eskimo. Very interesting lah.
ReplyDeleteCyberspace is faceless. We have Bayee lah, Chinese lah, Melayu lah, etc. Cyber clones and all kinds.
We could be talking to the one and same person for all very know . . .
hee ... hee ... hee ...
Helmut Schmidt, the former German chancellor, said a few years ago that multiculturalism can only work under authoritarian regimes, and that bringing millions of Moslem Turkish guest workers to Germany was a mistake.
ReplyDeleteThe 4 million or so and ever- increasing Moslem Turks are a big headache to the Germans in so far as integration is concerned. They want the best of both worlds and whose allegiance remain questionable in so far as the Germans are concerned.
So if the writer was indeed a German, we can safely take his words with a pinch of salt. he already has his hands full back home.
NB. It was alleged 9/11 was hatched in one of the Islamic cell groups in Germany.
Wake up and realize dat dis is a capitalist world we live in... Dey wont blardy build a halal foodcourt if there is no market for it... Its all about simple economics... Why target one market wen u can target several... Dat being said the world is about personal choice... Some muslims eat onli in exclusively halal establishments, others are okay wif mixed environment wheras some dnt gif a shit... Stop being fundamentalist right wing zealots and respect others... Let people choose from where dey want to eat, halal or non halal... If u dictate wat others can or cannot do den dat is forced virtues... The difference between man and angels is dat man haf the power of free will... Dat makes us more powerful n dats y even angels envy us... Dnt let anyone take it away from u...
ReplyDeleteCheers...
Wasp...
If it's all about simple economics, presumably it's alright to not specially cater Halal food for a Muslim minority.
ReplyDeleteI once asked an Arab-Muslim friend if he would eat Satay where the sauce had no chili in it.
ReplyDeleteHe said he wouldn't eat it.
I'm a moslem. I don't mind sitting together with my friends who eats non halal food. I concern about cross contamination only if the dishes is washed at the same place that is. Other moslem might be stricter...so they can have a designated 'halal only' table then...
ReplyDeleteYou can not bring non halal food to the table, but you can bring halal food anywhere. If you want to mingle with non-Muslim friends over canteen breaks, then don't sit on the designated moslem table! easy right ??? Just remember to put your dishes separately, that's all. No fuss...
I alaso do not agree with the principal not allowing non halal food in his school canteen. I understand if that happen in banquet...well, it's their place, so they can apply any rules they want. But in a school? Nay...
SHADDUP LA! You ppl suck big time. Especially the 'Anonymous' fella, who keep rebutting at everthing others say. The problem is not Char Siew or Friendship. The problem is u just can't lose....everytime must win...watever u say must be the right one. U loser!
ReplyDeleteNot only Muslims dun eat pork. There are non-Muslims who won't eat pork also. So its not a matter of religion or pork, for that matter. You eat what u want to eat...and u sit with whom u want to sit. Free for all. At the end of the day, we gotta give and take to live in Singapore. U ppl nothing better to do.... Losers!
Hi,
ReplyDeleteJust happened to chance on this blog and noticed Jai's comment about halal meat being ok for Sikhs and the rebuttals thereafter.
I'm a practicing Sikh and would like to add that there are today two factions of Sikhs; one forbids the eating of halal/kosher meat (i.e. the relatively new "pro-Jhatka" group), and the other (traditional) forbids meat, fish, eggs. I'm a vegetarian btw, and would like Jai and anyone else who's interested to read why Sikhs are instructed to be vegetarians: http://sikhiwiki.com/index.php/SGGS_on_meat (the verses further down that page).
As for Sikhs who do not observe dietary restrictions...well, I know scores of Muslims who drink liquor or consume non-halal food, and Catholics who do not observe the 10 commandments, and Hindus who take beef, etc etc. Doesn't make it ok, but that's the way people are.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI'm a Sikh. My parents have brought me up only teaching me that I cant eat beef. But that has nothing to do with my religion. I have decided to understand my religion myself. And its two things:
1) you are either a pure vegan.
2)or you eat meat but not the halal meat.
Sikhs, like the Jews are a minority. I know MANY Sikhs who dont eat Halal food. Before the Halal Sign was imposed almost everywhere, I could eat chicken from Old Changkee. (just an example). But now, I have almost become a vegetarian. I love my seafood and occassionaly i do miss eating chicken. But I dont kick a fuss. I have dinner once or twice at my good friends place. She's muslim and if she has cooked chicken, she simply doesnt offer me to eat. If there is fish, she gets really excited, and we eat together.
From what ive read so far....we singaporeans are "multi-racial", but we havent got a clue about other religions. And Im not just talking about Islam. There are other religions in this world, besides Islam. Like Sikhism. Its really upsetting though that we haven't gone around plastering non-halal signs, but instead we just sit here and slowly watch all the food outlets and restaurants get labelled "halal".
As for why Sikhs can't eat halal, its got nothing to do with Pork. Google it.
Just wondering, this Jai guy, who has utteres
Jai,
ReplyDeleteIts sad that you call yourself a Sikh, for you don't even know that the gurdwara(sikh temple) is on Wilkinson Road and Not Branksome Road. Instead of being girlish and gossiping abt the 'anonymous' who had to teach you about our religion... Please, for Waheguru's sake, stop embarrassing us(Sikhs) and attend some Sikh classes at Silat Road Temple. It will do you good.
I seriously have no idea, where you are getting your information from, but you seem rather lost.
Hi,
ReplyDelete'Sikh' here again.
Anonymous mentioned after my earlier post that:
"1) you are either a pure vegan."
Vegans forsake even dairy products and the use of leather, etc. Remember that the ingredients for the "prasad" (sacremantal food given in the Sikh temple / Gurdwara after a service) was formulated by the Guru (prophet) and includes ghee (from milk). So vegetarian Sikhs are actually not usually vegans. I'm near vegan as I'm lactose intolerant - and so only take a little more than a pinch of prasad for this reason.
Religion came about for the betterment of mankind if one takes the spiritual path. But little minds take it to a neurotic degree, miss the essence of the underlying teachings, and become intolerant of others.
My best friend of 20+ years is a practicing Muslim and we have mutual respect for each other's way of life. We don't do anything that will piss the other off. Wouldn't it be great if we can all live in harmony despite our differences? Or has mankind not reached that level of evolution yet?
As for Jai and others like him, he was probably innocently ignorant since he may not be moving in the circle of practicing Sikhs (and Sikhs number less than 20K here so that's understandable). As an anonymous writer so uneloquently said earlier in this discussion:
"Since when sikhs cannot eat halal food? All the bayi at my workplace have been wacking mcdonalds, pizzahut kfc. all halal."
I was one of those a couple of decades ago! People change (some come into the fold, and others fall out of it). Hopefully Jai, armed with the new bit of religious knowledge, is now well on the path of discovery; so Reet, give the boy some space to grow :)
Give him some space to grow? Sure, he can take all the space he needs;) But religion is a sensitive topic and since we are blogging about it (and we are also educating our fellow Singaporeans about how Sikhs CANT eat halal food) I feel he should at least possess the right information or at least consult the 'SGGS' before making any kind comments.
ReplyDeleteThe rule is, "think before you open your gap".
And I would like to add, that just like you, a few years ago,I was ignorant about the fact that eating halal food is forbidden (read: huge posters in Silat rd temple), and i used to eat openly at mc's, kfc,etc. But Im aware now, and I'm aware not coz its been passed down by my parents, its coz i made the effort to understand my religion myself. Religion, is a personal choice. No one can force my kids tommorow to eat only non-halal food. They gotta figure out whats impt or not, themselves. And Thanks for correcting me on the vegan part. Cheers!
Points noted, Reet.
ReplyDeleteMark Twain once said, “It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!”
Won't be surprised if Jai knew "for sure" and ended up putting his foot into his mouth :)
It's been my experience that being hard on a person rarely convinces him to see your point. And the whole point is to help others onto the Path - not merely to gain victory. There's greater success in convincing the other party through factual non-aggressive arguments - rather than putting that person down. Sensitive matters have to be handled sensitively - something that I'm still learning after all these years.
We have digressed a fair bit from the actual subject matter of this blog. Sensitive matters tend to be like that I suppose!
Allow me to digress some more :)
Some years back in Tekka Market, meat stall holders paid a Muslim man to slaughter chickens in the 'proper way' for their Muslim customers. I stood there and watched him for over 15 minutes as he casually went around slicing the throats of chickens - in full view of other living chickens nearby, and apparently not reciting any verses while he was at it (he was joking with some stall holders at the time). This, I believe, makes the meat of these animals non-halal:
“And do not eat the flesh of the animal over which Allah’s name has not been mentioned at the time of slaughter; this is indeed sinful..” (6:121)
"Do not slaughter sheep in the presence of other sheep, or any animal in the presence of other animals." (Hazrat Imam Ali)
I also saw one slaughterer doing the 'korban' in a mosque near the NKF in full view of other sheep who were waiting for their turn.
So, sadly, what a Muslim customer thinks is halal may not actually be - they can only hope that proper procedures are put into place and that sacrifices are done in the proper way.
Coming back to the initial topic at hand: racial and religious harmony requires sensitivity on the part of all parties. I recall an instance several years ago when a group of ex-army buddies (including a hindu who did not take beef, and a couple of muslims) decided to join me for dinner. Because of the dietary restrictions each of us was following, we ended up eating thosay in Serangoon Rd in a vegetarian stall. And all were happy!
On other occassions, I've seen Muslims insisting that they want to eat at a halal food store - even when they knew that meat (or food cooked in utencils that were used to cook meat) was not permissible for their friends. That's when divisions occur.
So the solution is for everyone to eat vegan food, then everyone will be happy.
ReplyDeleteEveryone has their own opinions and perceptions on the subject.Most importantly, the racial harmony and integrations. The way people thinks,everyone has bias.Don't let opinions lead our life.
ReplyDeleteAgagooga, while I'm all for veganism (it'll probably be acceptable to most people), that's not my point. Sensitivity is.
ReplyDeleteTake for example a group of friends who do not observe any dietary restrictions going out for a meal with a staunch Muslim. If understanding prevails, they'd either dine at a halal or a vegetarian restaurant. If the group includes a staunch Hindu or a Sikh who does not eat halal food, then the group would automatically steer toward a vegetarian restaurant. Alternatively, at a food centre, each could order food of his own preference, etc and need be, sit at neabouring tables. I've done that with my group of friends and there was never an issue once the others understood the reasons. Some would say that it should be ok to dine at the same table; but then the Muslim is forbidden to be in the presence of liquor and the Sikh in the presence of smokers, etc etc. Compromise is always possible if the friendship is true. But in many cases, its, "We're going to eat here - too bad for you!".
Wow... people feel pretty strongly about this from all directions.
ReplyDeleteI think the posts that ask questions without trying to prove a point are probably the most productive. I mean, its pretty obvious that no-one's going to change their view based on what other people here have to say and yet they're trying to convert each other to whatever opinion it is they have...
Personally, Im pretty ambivalent on the topic. I'm now sharing a flat with someone who only eats halal foods, but I figure- why should this be a problem?
I have some food allergies which make my diet pretty erm, eccentric, so cross contamination is also a problem for me though medically rather than morally. If everyone can make slight changes to how they prepare foods and behave at meal times for me, the least I can do is return the favour!
I think every non-Muslim here can manage to just not eat forbidden food for a single meal just to spend time with friends! I eat pork yet I don't eat it everyday, as long as people are prepared to comprimise then everything will work out!
If people want to avoid food for any reason at all, its everyone else's duty to respect that and not antagonise them on purpose by deliberately eating what they can't in front of them. That's the sign of someone who just can't find a decent counterargument.
Religious tolerance for the win! :D
Do not impose your religious practices on those who have other beliefs.
ReplyDeleteWe do whatever we want as long as it displays empathy.
Eating whatever food from wherever the source it maybe does not harms the person sitting next to me.
The food goes INTO my body, NOT yours.
No other religion demands SO much from another human but the Islamic religion.
Try not to expect so much from others as we do not expect much from you.
Take life with a pinch of salt.